It's a positive development. The actual support of a functioning Palestinian government by surrounding states is crucial for peace and a two-state deal. Some states have actually volunteered peacekeeping forces.
The second step should be for Western states to call on Israel to disarm and relinquish control of Gaza and the West Bank.
Hamas cannot be trusted to oversee the Palestinian people for the sake of Israel then Israel cannot be trusted to oversee Gaza and the West Bank for the sake of the world.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing are the latest attrocity, they need to be the last.
If you're going to make statements like that you should at least know your history.
Egypt ended up with Gaza after the 1948 Arab Israeli war. They controlled Gaza until the 6 day war when they lost it and the Sinai Peninsula. Israel offered to give Gaza back to Egypt as part of the Camp David accords but Egypt didn't want it. Israel abandoned Gaza to Hamas in 2007. But after 10/7 they've decided that was a mistake.
So yeah you can demand all you want that Israeli accept being slaughtered by Islamic terrorists but isn't going to happen. Reality is calls to push Israel into a corner is going to result in stuff you claim not to want.
Whilst we respect all other language and cultures, HN is an English-language site, and it's not OK to comment in a foreign language in order to engage in political/ideological battle. Aside from anything else, using HN for political/ideological battle is against the guidelines:
Edit: We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id= 44747729 and marked it off-topic, and redacted the comment at the user's request.
You can email us (hn@ycombinator.com) if you want us to redact or take other action on other comments. We don't need to wipe anything from your HN history unless you really want us to. We just want you to make an effort to make an effort to observe the guidelines in the future.
It's an indication of how much the political landscape of the middle-east has changed. Prior Arab leaders had a sense of pride and independence about their region, and even stood up to the superpowers when they interfered in their politics (as much they could). Arab leaders today are mostly American pawns. Future generation of Arabs will woe at the short-sightedness of their leaders in allowing the current Israeli-right to cull the Palestinians and occupy Gaza, and parts of Syria and Lebanon, to work on their "Greater Israel" project and expand their power in the region. Arab leaders should also be genuinely ashamed that they chose to be bystanders as Palestinians are being slaughtered, instead of working together to pressure Netanyahu's government to end the genocide in Gaza and make him face international justice as a war criminal for his crimes against humanity. Instead, they don't even have the political foresight to understand that they are being manipulated to protect Netanyahu's interest.
Or perhaps they have matured and understand that the current war in Gaza was caused by Hamas' actual crime against humanity on October 7th and their continued strategy to cause bloodshed.
If you remove Hamas there is not longer any justification for the war and Israel would have to stop, Us support would evaporate, too. This would be the best way to protect civilians on all sides and to push for longer term negotiations.
There is a big difference between supporting Palestinians and supporting Hamas, which seems to be lost on many.
In fact, it is a big mistake for France and the UK to recognise a Palestinian state without conditions as it in effect vindicates Hamas and so can only create move violence.
What are you saying? That without the oct 7. terrorist attacks Israel still has justification for the Gaza genocide? That there is no difference in supporting Hamas and supporting Palestinians?
There is nothing vague about any of these terms. I suspect you are not asking in good faith, but I will pretend otherwise.
The first is a crime against humanity, and includes the ongoing Gaza genocide conducted by Israel, as well as the Rohingya Genocide condected by Burma, the Cambodian Genocide conducted by the Khmer Rouge, etc.
The second is a people group of mostly Arabic speaking people who lived or are descended from people who lived in historic Palestine in what is now Israel and the Israeli occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
The third is a political organization and a terrorist group which operates and is the single ruling party of the Israeli occupied territory of Gaza, who‘s primary political position is the liberation of Palestine.
There is also a big difference between supporting a peaceful resolution to the current situation and not acknowledging that Israel has played a huge part in the current situation prior to October 7th and has participated in genocide and ethnic cleansing after.
The existence of settlements in Palestinian land is not something the International community should have tolerated for days never mind decades.
There are lots of parties, including Hamas, that could have helped avoid where we are today. A shameful place for the whole world.
I think it is very sad that people are still blaming other people than Israel for the Gaza Genocide. Hamas is not doing the Gaza genocide, and yet we regularly see Hamas being blamed for it.
I will offer an alternative theory from yours: If you remove Hamas it is still quite likely that Israel will find a different justification in a different time for their genocide, and would conduct it anyway with Western aid and complicity.
> I think it is very sad that people are still blaming other people than Israel for the Gaza Genocide.
Its very sad that people are calling the genocide of the Palestinian people Israel has been engaged in for generations and which has never been limited to Gaza, “the Gaza Genocide”, and pretending it has a timetable that only reinforces the Israeli propaganda that what is actually being described is not a long-running genocide to which the Hamas Oct 7 attack was an (illegal and worthy of international sanction!) response, but instead a response to the Oct 7 attack.
I do think the Gaza genocide is so atrocious it deserves a name of its own. Otherwise I agree with you. The focus on the Gaza Genocide often overshadows other genocidal atrocities which Israel has been systematically conducting against Palestinians for generations.
The current situation in Gaza highlights how Israeli government has historically modulated the Palestinian genocide according to what it thinks domestic and international (the latter being most particularly US government, necessary for both direct aid/active military defense and the shield of the Security Council veto, and which effectively insulates it from most meaningful consequences from other international quarters) support will tolerate based on the available pretexts it can use to provide superficial PR cover even while from the other side of its mouth it is fairly openly spouting eliminationist rhetoric, but its not a separate thing (and, in fact, Israel has used the focus of attention on the situation in Gaza to ramp up attacks in the West Bank with little comment; underlining how its all part of one coordinated, integrated project.)
Allegedly this is big news.
It's a positive development. The actual support of a functioning Palestinian government by surrounding states is crucial for peace and a two-state deal. Some states have actually volunteered peacekeeping forces.
Well, it's a step forward but I doubt Hamas will do so.
The second step should be for Western states to call on Israel to disarm and relinquish control of Gaza and the West Bank.
Hamas cannot be trusted to oversee the Palestinian people for the sake of Israel then Israel cannot be trusted to oversee Gaza and the West Bank for the sake of the world.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing are the latest attrocity, they need to be the last.
If you're going to make statements like that you should at least know your history.
Egypt ended up with Gaza after the 1948 Arab Israeli war. They controlled Gaza until the 6 day war when they lost it and the Sinai Peninsula. Israel offered to give Gaza back to Egypt as part of the Camp David accords but Egypt didn't want it. Israel abandoned Gaza to Hamas in 2007. But after 10/7 they've decided that was a mistake.
So yeah you can demand all you want that Israeli accept being slaughtered by Islamic terrorists but isn't going to happen. Reality is calls to push Israel into a corner is going to result in stuff you claim not to want.
[flagged]
Whilst we respect all other language and cultures, HN is an English-language site, and it's not OK to comment in a foreign language in order to engage in political/ideological battle. Aside from anything else, using HN for political/ideological battle is against the guidelines:
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id= 44747729 and marked it off-topic, and redacted the comment at the user's request.
Hello Tom,
Please delete that comment, and any other of my posts that may go against HN guidelines. Thanks!
Thanks, I've redacted and detached the comment.
You can email us (hn@ycombinator.com) if you want us to redact or take other action on other comments. We don't need to wipe anything from your HN history unless you really want us to. We just want you to make an effort to make an effort to observe the guidelines in the future.
It's an indication of how much the political landscape of the middle-east has changed. Prior Arab leaders had a sense of pride and independence about their region, and even stood up to the superpowers when they interfered in their politics (as much they could). Arab leaders today are mostly American pawns. Future generation of Arabs will woe at the short-sightedness of their leaders in allowing the current Israeli-right to cull the Palestinians and occupy Gaza, and parts of Syria and Lebanon, to work on their "Greater Israel" project and expand their power in the region. Arab leaders should also be genuinely ashamed that they chose to be bystanders as Palestinians are being slaughtered, instead of working together to pressure Netanyahu's government to end the genocide in Gaza and make him face international justice as a war criminal for his crimes against humanity. Instead, they don't even have the political foresight to understand that they are being manipulated to protect Netanyahu's interest.
Or perhaps they have matured and understand that the current war in Gaza was caused by Hamas' actual crime against humanity on October 7th and their continued strategy to cause bloodshed.
If you remove Hamas there is not longer any justification for the war and Israel would have to stop, Us support would evaporate, too. This would be the best way to protect civilians on all sides and to push for longer term negotiations.
There is a big difference between supporting Palestinians and supporting Hamas, which seems to be lost on many.
In fact, it is a big mistake for France and the UK to recognise a Palestinian state without conditions as it in effect vindicates Hamas and so can only create move violence.
Your first and last sentences are correct.
But those in the middle are wrong.
What are you saying? That without the oct 7. terrorist attacks Israel still has justification for the Gaza genocide? That there is no difference in supporting Hamas and supporting Palestinians?
I’m unable to communicate using vague or misused terms. If you want to continue please define your terms:
1. define “genocide”
2. define “palestinian”
3. define “hamas”
There is nothing vague about any of these terms. I suspect you are not asking in good faith, but I will pretend otherwise.
The first is a crime against humanity, and includes the ongoing Gaza genocide conducted by Israel, as well as the Rohingya Genocide condected by Burma, the Cambodian Genocide conducted by the Khmer Rouge, etc.
The second is a people group of mostly Arabic speaking people who lived or are descended from people who lived in historic Palestine in what is now Israel and the Israeli occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
The third is a political organization and a terrorist group which operates and is the single ruling party of the Israeli occupied territory of Gaza, who‘s primary political position is the liberation of Palestine.
Your theory crumbles under the tacit lies of omission.
In fact, Hamas didn't exist in 1948 or even in 1967... At those time Israel was already doing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
There is also a big difference between supporting a peaceful resolution to the current situation and not acknowledging that Israel has played a huge part in the current situation prior to October 7th and has participated in genocide and ethnic cleansing after.
The existence of settlements in Palestinian land is not something the International community should have tolerated for days never mind decades.
There are lots of parties, including Hamas, that could have helped avoid where we are today. A shameful place for the whole world.
I think it is very sad that people are still blaming other people than Israel for the Gaza Genocide. Hamas is not doing the Gaza genocide, and yet we regularly see Hamas being blamed for it.
I will offer an alternative theory from yours: If you remove Hamas it is still quite likely that Israel will find a different justification in a different time for their genocide, and would conduct it anyway with Western aid and complicity.
> I think it is very sad that people are still blaming other people than Israel for the Gaza Genocide.
Its very sad that people are calling the genocide of the Palestinian people Israel has been engaged in for generations and which has never been limited to Gaza, “the Gaza Genocide”, and pretending it has a timetable that only reinforces the Israeli propaganda that what is actually being described is not a long-running genocide to which the Hamas Oct 7 attack was an (illegal and worthy of international sanction!) response, but instead a response to the Oct 7 attack.
I do think the Gaza genocide is so atrocious it deserves a name of its own. Otherwise I agree with you. The focus on the Gaza Genocide often overshadows other genocidal atrocities which Israel has been systematically conducting against Palestinians for generations.
The current situation in Gaza highlights how Israeli government has historically modulated the Palestinian genocide according to what it thinks domestic and international (the latter being most particularly US government, necessary for both direct aid/active military defense and the shield of the Security Council veto, and which effectively insulates it from most meaningful consequences from other international quarters) support will tolerate based on the available pretexts it can use to provide superficial PR cover even while from the other side of its mouth it is fairly openly spouting eliminationist rhetoric, but its not a separate thing (and, in fact, Israel has used the focus of attention on the situation in Gaza to ramp up attacks in the West Bank with little comment; underlining how its all part of one coordinated, integrated project.)